Werepanthers (EVERYONE PLEASE READ)

[Inora Theos]

I'd just like to make one point about neutral parties....

They already exist here.

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If we were to have another BWP with a war between vamps and wolves, there would be neutral vamps and wolves, I know this because there were neutral vamps and wolves in the first BWP. Those neutral parties were not hit up by either side to win them over because to put it quite frankly...this is a make-believe site. We rp with who we rp with, we don't go around busting in on people's threads going 'join my side or die'. If someone wants to be swayed to a side they find someone on that side and make plans to get swayed.

But there will always be neutral parties and they already exist adding panthers in does not magically create a neutral party.

This site is not divided down the middle with vamps on one side and wolves on the other. There have been numerous vamp/wolf relationships, numerous vamp/wolf friendships. Not to mention the fact that there are humans, a COMPLETELY neutral third party simply because most of them should have no idea that the vamps and wolves exist.

If you don't want werepanthers on the site, then just don't rp with the werepanthers or make a werepanther. However, why should those of us that want to have a few panthers running around be punished simply because some others are afraid of a 'cluster-fuck'.


Also, as Felnic said, we have no explanations for how the other species came about. Panthers are a secretive species, which means that it is highly plausible for them to have been around for millenia without anyone knowing about them and they are simply surfacing now because the world has become a little harder to hide in, just like the vamps and wolves.

Think about it, humans have been unaware that vamps and wolves exist, some vamps are unaware of wolves, some wolves are unaware of vamps, therefore it would make a hell of a lot of sense for the humans, vamps, and wolves to all have been unaware of a handful of werepanthers out amidst the BILLIONS of people in the world.

[* Charlie Poulien]

I've read that in several places, that the original intention (beyond the current) was a plot exclusive to vampires and humans. Unless all humans in this plot were fully aware of the vampire race, then the two stories and changes are hardly comparable. Still, this supports my point. In order to alter or bring something new in (whether it be species or dynamic), the plot inevitably has to change. If you don't want to focus so much on the history of the species and how they've intermingled in the past (or even why they are at odds with one another), then that is your preference. It's not necessarily something I agree with, as I generally like to know why things are the way they are, rather than having it presented as 'it just is.' War may be too strong of a word, but there is a general sense of animosity between the species that has a charisma to it, I'm not wrong in saying that adding a third perspective would alter the story. It's inevitable, and if you're of the mind that it isn't then that's an issue for another day. Characters influence greatly the plot or the focus of a story.

I understand quite well the history of Vampires, as well as that of Lycans. I'm not completely ignorant to the fact that once upon a time, their stories did not mingle as they do today in horror medias. Each had their separate story, development, and myths that managed to stay strong throughout the ages. This also supports my point though, and is a big reason as to why any story where they are at odds with one another works. As for the unification of Lycans and Ailurans into the same species being hypocritical? No, seeing as how both spawn from Therianthrope. It was merely a suggestion, you can't fault me for being attentive enough of the idea to offer multiple solutions. Especially when I'm not even behind it.

If you want to get into specifics about Star Wars, I can do that. But, there's no denying that when an audience walks away from the movie, there are still only two lingering perspectives or sides. That is the beauty of it, and is most definitely the intention of any major movie maker to create something basic for audiences to walk away with upon first contact (while bringing several different species to the board). Again, he went about the story of Star Wars in a very careful way. It also helped that he only had to focus on a couple of main characters, because it was indeed a movie. If you want to get even more profound on it, it's simply a metaphor for WWII, which again -- two sides. Empire/Republic are the Nazi's (or Axis, there are debates on which to settle on), while the opposition are proven to be either America, or the Allies (again, debatable between these two as philosophers tend to debate this).

And to the point made where not all vampires hate werewolves and vice versa, I hardly expect that to be the case. It's illogical and unrealistic. Even before and during America's engagement in WWII, there were multiple people not only against the idea, but agreeing entirely with the Nazi perspective in the USA. The Jews, for a long time, were essentially hunted and excluded through any means possible. I never said fighting was so black and white as to assign it's participants a definite side, I merely stated that there is almost always an assumed or assigned side to a general population.

Before you come at it again, the reason I am using instances of war to support my argument is simply because animosity on any level between different groups of people (whether it be tribes, countries, etc), almost always begins a war. I'm not even confining the identity of war to a massive scale attack, as there are certainly smaller instances that could range even to a war within one's self. The word is essentially a mask for the concept of two parties in severe conflict.

If you bothered to read into any of what I said, you'd realize that I am merely stating that the story changes. Honestly, if you have absolutely no concern for the basics and are willing to produce a chaotic world with no generic or basic plot for your Rper's to follow along with -- that's fine. Not my style, but fine. Obviously whether or not a character decides to follow the preconceived notions of this world is completely up to the player. Again, I am not stating that you should make your players conform.

If it didn't alter the story, there would be absolutely no need for this debate.

As for the writers bringing to the table the value of the story, that's only partially true. They do need something to go off of, some sort of basic understanding that keeps them all on the same plain. There have to be guidelines or rules, you can't just half ass tossing Werepanther's in and leave it up to your writers to figure it out. Then, you'll have some who believe it to be based off of a virus, and some who believe that it is based off of something else. What I'm saying to you is that because of the multitude of directions these myths have been taken in, it is kind of necessary to explain which you're going with.

You don't have to have board wide plots, but you do have to have structure. I'm not in support of board wide plots, actually. They're restrictive and hardly allow for any sort of creative input in terms of character. I am in support of knowing the world you're signing up to RP in, though.

On the issue of a plot that differs from the present one -- Yeah, I recognize that there was a previous plot in play for this forum, but I ask you to think of this: When the addition of Werewolves happened, did the story or tone not change?

..And back then I would have made the same argument I am making now -- that they don't fit into the CURRENT circumstances. I'm not saying no, never. I am saying that changes (whether slight or great), will inevitably follow.

And as for you last statement about knocking things before I try them...
I've always sort of had an issue with that phrase.

I'm probably not going to go about on a murder spree, and I'm going to 'knock' murder.
I'm not going to try to be a rapist, but I'll knock it.
You can indeed 'knock' things without trying them. Everyone does it.



Now, onto the second retort made to my post.


I don't want to be redundant, so please read through the above before making any further remarks. Of course not every vampire loathes werewolves, and vice versa. I don't expect that, in fact I don't think anyone naturally could expect this. But there is no doubt something gearing them to be natural nemeses. Yes, neutral parties already exist in both species, awesome. Doesn't change the fact that it is plainly stated in the current plot that there is a very general and widespread distaste between vampires and lycans

So what is CK and what goes on around here? What is the plot to this RPG?

Crimson Kiss is a vampire, human, and werewolf RPG. It is set in modern times in various places in the world. Good vampires hunt animals and bad vampires hunt people. Good and bad vampires sometimes don’t mix well. Humans are just humans. Werewolves are shape shifting humans that become wolves and have cool abilities.

And for your benefit to make things interesting in posting, werewolves and vampires don’t like each other. It’s a popularity contest, who’s the better race. Vampires think werewolves shouldn’t exist because they are just as good as they are but breathing. Of course, not all vampires hold grudge’s. A vampire can like a werewolf, but maybe that werewolf doesn’t like that vampire. But what if they both liked each other?

I'm afraid beyond this post that this will be all the time I have to offer for this argument, as I can't lend my attention to something that is ultimately out of my hands. Not only do I have too much to do off the computer to genuinely care about the direction of the site, but the argument (which it is indeed turned into some debate, as opposed to an offering of opinion for the debate surely to happen with those in control), is trivial. The fact that so much attention is being paid to my opinions is a little disturbing, as I was under the impression that the thread was a place to state your opinion on the matter -- not attack other opinions. Now, rather than being done in stating my opinion, I feel I am beginning a cycle of explaining again and again a simple fact. My point, once more before it gets muffled or twisted once again is the following:


Werepanther's will change the story or mood, as any change in a story greatly effects the outcome or feel. How you go about it is up to you, I was only attempting to help make a matter I completely disagree with workable if it indeed comes into fruition. I really don't know how many different ways I can say adding something major to a story changes it. Even the first renovation the site underwent when shifting to include werewolves changed the story (if you're going to insist on comparing the two plot changes, there it is).

[felnicwinter]

Charlie - there is only one way Panthers change the mood of CK for you and that's if you let it. Keep in mind Panthers are playing a MAJOR part in many maintstream Vampire Media from the Anita Blake novels to the Sookie Stackhouse novel series (otherwise known as True Blood on television). As Inora stated, if you don't want to rp with a were panther, then don't. If you don't like them, ignore them and don't rp with the character. Majority of people like this idea. As such, Panthers are here and the first thread is posted. And I will say, just one more time, Panthers will not affect your specific character unless you interact with one. If you don't then so be it. You're call.

I have no intention of letting this species fail.


So now... let's have some werepanthery fun peeps!!!

[Inora Theos]

"So what is CK and what goes on around here? What is the plot to this RPG?

Crimson Kiss is a vampire, human, and werewolf RPG. It is set in modern times in various places in the world. Good vampires hunt animals and bad vampires hunt people. Good and bad vampires sometimes don’t mix well. Humans are just humans. Werewolves are shape shifting humans that become wolves and have cool abilities.

And for your benefit to make things interesting in posting, werewolves and vampires don’t like each other. It’s a popularity contest, who’s the better race. Vampires think werewolves shouldn’t exist because they are just as good as they are but breathing. Of course, not all vampires hold grudge’s. A vampire can like a werewolf, but maybe that werewolf doesn’t like that vampire. But what if they both liked each other? "



It's quite simple to fix this actually:

So what is CK and what goes on around here? What is the plot to this RPG?

Crimson Kiss is a vampire, human, and werespecies RPG. It is set in modern times in various places in the world. Good vampires hunt animals and bad vampires hunt people. Good and bad vampires sometimes don’t mix well. Humans are just humans. Weres are shape shifting humans that become animals and have cool abilities.

And for your benefit to make things interesting in posting, weres and vampires don’t like each other. It’s a popularity contest, who’s the better race. Vampires think weres shouldn’t exist because they are just as good as they are but breathing. Of course, not all vampires hold grudge’s. A vampire can like a were, but maybe that were doesn’t like that vampire. But what if they both liked each other?


See it's quite simple really, just take the wolf off of werewolf and add somewhere in the threads that the only werespecies available at this time are wolves and panthers.


And we are not attacking your 'opinions' Charlie, we are simply giving our opinion as to why your opinion has flaws, same as you did with ours. No one is attacking here, this could never have turned into anything but a debate, when you get two sides with conflicting opinions debate's tend to arise(notice I said debates, not wars).

[Ellie]

It'd be pointless to change the plot page thing (even though it really needs to be updated with a more elaborate plot/better written xD so old!) when only SELECT people get to create a werepanther.

Not to mention WERE - could be taken out of context xD not very good diction there Nora dearest. They ducks were crossing the road. I don't even think were is a word out of that context anyways.

I *DO* think there should be a background on the species - not something too recent for vampire/werewolves however - obviously. But just a little story on the begginings of the species. -shrugs- However - that doesn't mena YOUR character has to believe it. Liiike, I pretty much feel like characters here take their 'beginings' beliefs like religions. Oh so vampires started in Egypt you say? A possible story. ORRRR we could all be DRACULA spawn? Different opinions, eh? But shouldn't we make some truth? Maybe not. I just thought it out for myself I suppose.

Uhhhhm - back to what I was saying. Oh yeah. I ain't changing the banner or any shits to meet panther needs xD I made you asscats a usertitle and that's it! lmfao. it's my only way to rebel.

and like I said - advertising that we are a site that houses werepanthers will only lead future members to believe they can PLAY one. And since the privlegde is only for select people like i said - that'd just be cruel. Not to mention the whole thing is unfair - but hey - I don't want to play one, so I don't feel the same sting other's might. Life isn't fair anyways, bub.

But some people don't get that now do they? I mean c'mon - you know bad blood has emerged from select people getting "cures" and shit - being able to change species, go back to being humans. whatever. if one person gets it - some time along the road someone else wants it for THIER plot. And when do you draw the line? What decides which member gets what anymore? It's all ridic favoritism. And it can and WILL cause conflict somewhere down the road. Trust me.



So, let me as any members that have joined in the laaast FEW MONTHS, don't know us admin very well personally - and probably won't be able to make or become a werepanther:

How do you feel about that?

[* Ixandra Marie]

I love the idea, personally.

[Fang]

I have taken into consideration everyone's opinions in this debate (yes, this has been a debate). I've decided to approach the Werepanther Project differently after I've seen everyone's opinions, so no one can say I have a biased attitude towards this.

I've developed an extremely demanding and strict list of Rules and Regulations for werepanthers, which will be posted in it's own section in the thread "General Information" located in the board, "Info, Rules, Updates, & Questions".

Ellie had a very good point about how members who have joined a little more recently than others don't have a fair chance at a werepanther character of their own. A lot of members have already asked me for a werepanther position after I stated there would be a werepanther character limit. Truthfully, these members are of the older generation.

As of now, there is a total of FIVE werepanther slots open, to be filled by the first five people to PM a request to me, starting now.

For the members who have already reserved a werepanther, I apologize, but this is the only fair way to do this as other members might not have been aware that they could reserve a werepanther character. When this thread started, its main purpose was to decide whether or not to add these creatures to the board, and by no means did it truly justify your right to reserve one. You'll have to reserve a werepanther fair and square.

Before anyone PM's me with a request, read the following Rules and Regulations to its entirety and be sure you can and will fulfill all the requirements.

CK is not a corrupt system where the Admins choose to do what they want, ask for opinions, then don't take them into consideration. I have taken everyone's opinions into consideration, which is why I made the Rules and Regulations for werepanthers insanely strict -- so they coincided with everyone's thoughts and opinions. Trust me, my rules and regulations for panthers was never intended to be as strict and demanding as it is now. And before I was going to let anyone who wanted a werepanther have one, but now I will only allow five (not including Felnic).

Werepanther Rules and Regulations:

• CK is NOT a Vampire, Werewolf, and Werepanther RPG. It will always remain a vampire and werewolf RPG. Werepanthers have no affect on any major site plots. They are an extremely rare species. Vampires, Werewolves, and Humans are unaware of their existance unless they were to meet a Werepanther. Werepanthers by no means alter the foundations of Crimson Kiss as a vamp, wolf, and human RPG. Interacting with a werepanther is by choice ONLY. Otherwise, your character should know nothing of their existance.
  
  
• Members against the Werepanther Project should not concern themselves with their existence and their impact on CK as a whole. CK is still how it stands, a vamp, wolf, and human RPG. Interacting with a werepanther character is strictly by choice. You decide if you want your character to have a werepanther experience. Those who don't welcome the idea should definitely not have a problem ignoring them, since werepanther members must abide by strict rules which does not permit them to change CK into a "Vampire, Werewolf, and Werepanther RPG". Werepanthers are here for the members who want to have their characters experience them, and for writers who want a challenge. For members who wish to RP on CK as it has been (one without werepanthers), then simply ignore the Werepanther Project, and it's as if CK never ever changed.
  
  
• Werepanthers are a secret species. Werepanther characters MUST keep to themselves and keep their species secret. No one knows of their existence -- in the world of CK, these creatures have NEVER existed, because no one knew they existed. Or if someone knew they existed, they didn't go blabbing about werepanthers to anyone. Furthermore, werepanthers are not to be accepted in society, because they have never been, and never will be a part of a wolf, vamp, human society. If your character interacts with a werepanther, it's your own little secret that they know werepanthers exist.
  
  
• There will always be six werepanthers on CK. No more. No less. If a slot opens for a werepanther character, everyone will be alerted via PM. The first member to PM me with a request gets the character. It's fair game.
  
  
• Members may not have more than two characters AND a werepanther. To ensure you remain active, you can only have three characters, one of which is your werepanther character. You may delete accounts to fulfill this requirement.
  
  
• Your werepanther character must remain active. You may go a month, max, with inactivity, unless you provide a valid reason for your inactivity in the "Going Away" thread. Your account will be deleted if you are inactive for a month without an excuse.
  
  
• Werepanthers are not allowed to bite humans. As aforementioned, there will only be a maximum of six werepanthers on CK.
  
  
• Werepanthers are NOT to be mentioned by one character to another in any threads, unless you are in a thread with a werepanther. Werepanthers are to be kept EXTREMELY exclusive. It's as if they don't exist at all in a vampire, werewolf, and human world.
  
  
• Werepanthers are NOT to go broadcasting their species. They cannot go up to a vamp, wolf, or human, and go, "HEY, LOOK AT ME I'M A WEREPANTHER!" or something to that effect. Vamps, wolves, and humans MUST discover the species on their own. As stated above, no member may learn about them through another character. If your character interacts with a werepanther, then your character isn't going to go advertising a new species to a world inhabited by humans, vamps and wolves. Other characters will just think you're nuts. Werepanthers are secret, hush hush. If you want your character to know the secret, then RP with a werepanther.
  
  
• There is heavy discrimination surrounding werepanthers. Any character to come in contact with a werepanther should not welcome the species with open arms. Werepanthers are aliens to EVERYONE. They are things to despise and fear. Introducing a new species to CK that no character has ever heard about or interacted with means there is absolutly no one who will understand them other than other werepanthers. Werepanthers are to receive nothing less than hate upon first impressions. Werepanthers are oppressed. Yes, I am telling you how to act around a werepanther. If you don't like it, don't RP with one.
  
  
• There is no back story for werepanthers. Werepanthers are not permitted to discover where they came from. Vamps and wolves have no back story, they simply exist, as do werepanthers.
  
  
• Werepanthers do not have any special strengths and weaknesses. They are shape shifters, just like a werewolf. They shift forcibly on a full moon night and become a ravenous beast with no human conscience. They can change any other time they want willingly. Just look at the werewolf information and abilities and substitute "werepanther" for "werewolf" for any other specifics. The only thing that is different between a werepanther and werewolf is werepanthers are cats, and werewolves are dogs. Apply necessary strengths and weaknesses to your werepanther character as you deem fit for a cat character. (I.E. werepanthers are stealthier than werewolves. Werepanthers are faster than werewolves. Werepanthers have less strength than werewolves. It's dog vs. cat people, use common sense here.)
  
  
• Werepanthers are not permitted to start an inter-species war with any of the species on CK. If a conflict were to ever arise between vamps, wolves, and humans which effects the board as a whole (which isn't likely), werepanthers are to go into hiding. They have no say in how a vamp, wolf, and human world works. Any rebellions are strictly prohibited.
  
  
• The Werepanther Project's main purpose is to introduce an alien species to CK to discover what effect they will have on vamp, wolf, and human characters after an interaction or experience with one. Werepanthers are for personal plot and character developments for members who wish to experience or write for a werepanther. Consider werepanthers a challenging writing exercise to boost creativity and writing capabilities.
  
  
• Werepanther members will be under strict supervision by staff at all times.
  
  
• Find a loop hole to any one of these rules and you will be punished.
  
  
• Rules and regulations are subject to be added or modified without warning. It is your responsibility to keep checking back here.
  
  
• The Werepanther Project CAN cease to exist if Fang finds any reason to abandon it. No questions asked.
  
  
• Yes, Fang is keeping werepanthers on a tight leash. Deal with it.
  
  
• Do not ask Fang to play favorites and make an exception for any one of the rules. She will not, and you will really make her angry.
  
  
• Questions or concerns? PM FANG
  
  
• Failure to adhere to any of these rules and regulations will result in punishment.

and this thread is LOCKED.