|
|
Post by crystalchase on Oct 16, 2009 20:35:33 GMT -5
I'd like to see this happen
|
|
* Charlie Poulien
A band of skeletons is playing. Don't act like you don't know the tune.
Posts: 17
|
Post by * Charlie Poulien on Oct 17, 2009 5:39:51 GMT -5
Ailuranthrope as an addition? Hmm.
In it's own respect it is a highly interesting topic, but in my opinion it doesn't cater to the original intention of the site. As far as the plot details, a great war between Vampires and Lycans has been brewing for centuries, and humans have been trapped unknowingly (or knowingly) within the crossfire. The addition of another species may ultimately muffle the severity or the emphasis on this point.
Any legitimate acceptance of the species as canon comes down to why the shape-shifters transform. Will that history or back story alter? Will it be based on viral implications, or will it resort to a more supernatural explanation? And with the introduction of Therianthrope as opposed to pure Lycanthrope, well... you run the risk of opening a can of worms. Surely once you've accepted the feline equivalent of a werewolf into your beloved family of fiends, other players will want to inquire about alternative animals as well -- and once you've accepted felines, the denial of any other animal will seem purely hypocritical (unless you can serve a good explanation as to why). Needless to say, it is a lot of work/trouble.
If this is something that is genuinely being considered beyond a topic for debate at this point, then you have to approach it carefully. Having them introduced as a different species per se would not work. The concept of war is something I've studied as a film student, and there are always two bold and opposing sides fighting for beliefs or reasons that will never be negotiated or solved. With Vampires and Lycans, you have that perfect tale that translates itself into the mold of war. A third element would be a cluster-fuck; a neglected step-sibling that adds absolutely nothing to the story (kind of like the green party during election year).
Keep in mind guys, when we were kids it was always Cops and Robbers, Cowboys and Indians, the Rebels and the Republic (Star Wars)....
You get the idea.
Anyway, if you're full on with this idea, the only way it would work in story format would be to reconstruct both species into one. Which they transform into would have to be determined by some other factor, such as which they more desire (do they have control over which they turn into, or which they choose?), perhaps location (with this there could be some cool insight into location and the effects on evolution -- Egypt being ideal for the cats, obviously), strain of virus (if this is indeed marked up to some scientific explanation such as a virus), something deeper within the genetic coding of the victim turned, etc.
There is no doubt a lot of potential for Ailuranthrope, as they certainly have an interesting parallel with the Ancient Egyptians and Lycans. If the conditions of the site changed, then I could definitely see the species being integrated. As it stands now, though... I'd have to say no.
Then again, you don't necessarily have to follow the principles of creating a plot if you merely want to appease the population. Depending on how it is approached, it could either be great, or terrible. |
|
Ellie
[I]SHE'S SO HIGH, HIGH ABOVE ME. SHE'S SO LOVELY. LIKE CLEOPATRA, JOAN OF ARK OR APHRODITE.[/I]
Posts: 1,905
|
Post by Ellie on Oct 17, 2009 9:50:04 GMT -5
You sir, Charlie are my new best friend.
|
|
|
|
Post by crystalchase on Oct 20, 2009 14:21:50 GMT -5
I can see where you were going with it Charlie, but I disagree with the fact that you said bringing them in would probably reduce the storyline of the war or even force the site to create a new history with the werepanthers in the mix. There are many stories that I read that have two warring species and one species that act like a neutral race that have nothing to do with the war unless somehow the war comes to them. Then they push the war out and try to live back in their normal ways. Also you brought the idea of a virus that can bring into play the werepanthers into existance recently. This way, nothing is reduced or muffled. Anyway, if you're full on with this idea, the only way it would work in story format would be to reconstruct both species into one. Which they transform into would have to be determined by some other factor, such as which they more desire (do they have control over which they turn into, or which they choose?), perhaps location (with this there could be some cool insight into location and the effects on evolution -- Egypt being ideal for the cats, obviously), strain of virus (if this is indeed marked up to some scientific explanation such as a virus), something deeper within the genetic coding of the victim turned, etc. In my opinion, this could work out well without changing much. I like the ideas you bring up though, like linking them with Egypt or a viral strain. Creative ideas as well as possible ways to explain how they came to be. There is no doubt a lot of potential for Ailuranthrope, as they certainly have an interesting parallel with the Ancient Egyptians and Lycans. If the conditions of the site changed, then I could definitely see the species being integrated. As it stands now, though... I'd have to say no. You even said it yourself that there is a lot of potential, and like you say it later on, it could be a great thing or a bad thing, but we really have nothing to lose if we do like Fang said and make them as a request and keep them in moderation. If it turns out to be a total failure, we can always take the characters out of the war. If it is a success, we can see how it plays out. |
|
|
|
Post by aubrey on Oct 20, 2009 14:34:57 GMT -5
I'm clearly not understanding why so many people have a problem with this idea. Everyone over analyzing this is making the entire thing more complicated than it truly needs to be.
When Crimson Kiss first opened Werewolves had nothing to do with the site. It was a Human and Vampire based RPG. Seeing as how it was easy to throw the Slayer option away and add in the Werewolves, it shouldn't be that big of a deal to have one more additional species.
As far as the war goes, I don't see why they have to be included anyway. If there can be neutral parties on both Vampire and Werewolf sides why can there not be a complete species that is neutral?
There have been many things thrown into this site-The Vampire Vaccine for example. That was something that was completely secluded to only a few members. I don't really understand why it's okay for a member to change from their original species back to being human then change again but there are so many negative opionions about the were's having a sub species.
It's not like we're adding witches with various powers, zombies, or something else that is complicated and not easily understood. If you understand the concept of a Werewolf then adding the Werepanther should be almost self explanatory.
|
|
Ellie
[I]SHE'S SO HIGH, HIGH ABOVE ME. SHE'S SO LOVELY. LIKE CLEOPATRA, JOAN OF ARK OR APHRODITE.[/I]
Posts: 1,905
|
Post by Ellie on Oct 20, 2009 15:53:23 GMT -5
Because you saw how the whole exclusive vampire/werewolf vaccine worked out, huh? EVERYONE WANTED IT - GO MAD OVER IT ETC ETC ETC. I was opposed to it the WHOLE TIME. And THAT started out with a "Oh, we wont let it get out of hand." and a bunch of, "THIS IS THE LAST TIME"s ... please. It's just a bunch of favoritism towards old members that needs to stop.
I foresee the same happening with a limited species of werepanthers. And I shall be around to say I told you so.
|
|
|
|
Post by felnicwinter on Oct 20, 2009 19:30:36 GMT -5
And you will not need to be saying that Ellie. =) It'll work.
My first open rp will be posted tomorrow.
|
|
Ellie
[I]SHE'S SO HIGH, HIGH ABOVE ME. SHE'S SO LOVELY. LIKE CLEOPATRA, JOAN OF ARK OR APHRODITE.[/I]
Posts: 1,905
|
Post by Ellie on Oct 20, 2009 20:16:35 GMT -5
Tell me that in... oooo, a few months.
|
|
* Charlie Poulien
A band of skeletons is playing. Don't act like you don't know the tune.
Posts: 17
|
Post by * Charlie Poulien on Oct 20, 2009 21:08:41 GMT -5
I can see where you were going with it Charlie, but I disagree with the fact that you said bringing them in would probably reduce the storyline of the war or even force the site to create a new history with the werepanthers in the mix. There are many stories that I read that have two warring species and one species that act like a neutral race that have nothing to do with the war unless somehow the war comes to them. Then they push the war out and try to live back in their normal ways. I've read books of that nature too, but usually the only reason they work is because they typically tend to focus on one species or side. Honestly, war is always presented by both propaganda and history to a vs. situation. That is simply fact. It was the Axis vs. the Allies in WWII, and one could easily say that there were multiple players and countries involved in that. Still, what makes a story with even the tiniest bit of animosity work is the fact that it is one vs the other. If you place the werepanther's as a neutral or an undecided species on the spectrum, they will inevitably become a focus of the board. In war, the object is to win, and how you win is by gaining anything you can. Whether it be land or people, there is almost always the constant struggle to attain something for your side's behalf. You could easily argue that this wouldn't be so by simply stating that it indeed would not happen if this species were permitted, but that doesn't necessarily warrant any truth to the matter. The board's plot would no longer be about two opposing sides, but two opposing sides pining for the attentions of one completely neutral perspective. That shifts the mood and tone of the site entirely (or at least it should to any perceptive writer). The point is this: With a third, neutral party... there is an inevitable focus on drawing them to one side or the other. If this is something you want, then go for it. If not, then don't. I'm clearly not understanding why so many people have a problem with this idea. Everyone over analyzing this is making the entire thing more complicated than it truly needs to be. I understand that there is an appeal to the species, and that it is only natural to avoid the cons when the desire for such is overwhelming. However, from a writer's standpoint, what I'm suggesting to all of you is that a story is much richer when you can explain the why's and how's. Of course it has to be analyzed, otherwise you end up with complete and utter crap that has absolutely NO boundaries. It is very necessary to have boundaries, in my opinion. You don't have to abide by the basic unspoken rules of building a plot, but it translates easier to those trying to decipher the core of what you're marketing in terms of a story. A lot of what people are attempting to debate me with are things I've already stated within my argument against them. I'm not saying it's never ever possible to include Ailuranthrope into a story arch. What I am saying though, is that you would have to redraft the story, because as it stands? Were-cats wouldn't fit into the focus. |
|
Ellie
[I]SHE'S SO HIGH, HIGH ABOVE ME. SHE'S SO LOVELY. LIKE CLEOPATRA, JOAN OF ARK OR APHRODITE.[/I]
Posts: 1,905
|
Post by Ellie on Oct 20, 2009 21:17:58 GMT -5
LISTEN TO THE MAN SPEAK, YO'
HE'S MORE ARTICULATE THAN I (:
see, it's just all a matter of "Circle the thing that doesn't belong."
and the only way to MAKE IT BELONG - is drastic measures.. that wouldn't constitute as "keeping it under control." and since CK wasnt really.. a like - ....shapeshifter site to begin with - it'd be weird. Slayers and vampires - go together. Okay, slayers ain't wokring, so let's change it to werewolves. werewolves and vampires? not THAT drastically.. "WHAT NOW!?" ... they GO together commonly. werepanther? - makes CK un-vampire/werewolf. it just makes it unorganized. and that is all.
|
|
|
|
Post by felnicwinter on Oct 21, 2009 6:21:49 GMT -5
In it's own respect it is a highly interesting topic, but in my opinion it doesn't cater to the original intention of the site. As far as the plot details, a great war between Vampires and Lycans has been brewing for centuries, and humans have been trapped unknowingly (or knowingly) within the crossfire. The addition of another species may ultimately muffle the severity or the emphasis on this point.
The original intention of this site was to be Vamp and Human only. Werewolves were not to cater to the original intention of tis site either. However, they were accepted. As far as Vampires and Lycans being at war all comes down to the story in which you believe. In some parts of the world, Eastern Europe for instance, Vampires and Wolves were two seperate entities all together who, in folklore, hardly ever interacted (God Bless A.P. European Literature in College (Yeah Im a book dork lol)). The addition of Werepanthers will not muffle the severity of this point on ck because Vampires and Werewolves are not at war here based on the plots that you read. They may not like each other but they are not at war. Especially when we have wolves and Vamps packing up.
Any legitimate acceptance of the species as canon comes down to why the shape-shifters transform. Will that history or back story alter? Will it be based on viral implications, or will it resort to a more supernatural explanation? And with the introduction of Therianthrope as opposed to pure Lycanthrope, well... you run the risk of opening a can of worms. Surely once you've accepted the feline equivalent of a werewolf into your beloved family of fiends, other players will want to inquire about alternative animals as well -- and once you've accepted felines, the denial of any other animal will seem purely hypocritical (unless you can serve a good explanation as to why). Needless to say, it is a lot of work/trouble.
There will be no history and backstory for Panthers because giving them a unified species backstory, is in itself, wouldn't that be hypocritical because Vampires and Werewolves do not have one? There will be no species backstory for any species because it constricts creativity. Also the denial of other species if not hypocritical. This argument could have been made when wolves came in and no one had a problem. It's like dogs and cats. We have the canine, now the secretive-rare feline equivalent. Remember, it's Fangs call on what can and can not be rp'd on ck. It would not be hypocritical since, again, this argument could have been made when wolves were brought in.
If this is something that is genuinely being considered beyond a topic for debate at this point, then you have to approach it carefully. Having them introduced as a different species per se would not work. The concept of war is something I've studied as a film student, and there are always two bold and opposing sides fighting for beliefs or reasons that will never be negotiated or solved. With Vampires and Lycans, you have that perfect tale that translates itself into the mold of war. A third element would be a cluster-fuck; a neglected step-sibling that adds absolutely nothing to the story (kind of like the green party during election year).
Your argument here is story. Again I refer to my earlier point. Read threads around this site. Vamps and Wolves are not in a full fledged war. Story comes down to the writer. Surely Vamp writers can fail, as can wolves. Adding Panthers to the mix will have no impact on your character unless your character interacts with one. There is no "cluster fuck".
Keep in mind guys, when we were kids it was always Cops and Robbers, Cowboys and Indians, the Rebels and the Republic (Star Wars)....
You get the idea.
Clarification: In star wars its Rebels and Empire, Droids and Clones but even in your analogy (It ultimately turned Clones V Jedi V Droids) and in the expanded Universe of Star wars it was (Rebels V Empire V Yuuzan Vong V New Republic) Yes I know Star wars too. As you can see EVERY major franchise HAS more than two opponents. Star wars is a prime example of this.
Anyway, if you're full on with this idea, the only way it would work in story format would be to reconstruct both species into one. Which they transform into would have to be determined by some other factor, such as which they more desire (do they have control over which they turn into, or which they choose?), perhaps location (with this there could be some cool insight into location and the effects on evolution -- Egypt being ideal for the cats, obviously), strain of virus (if this is indeed marked up to some scientific explanation such as a virus), something deeper within the genetic coding of the victim turned, etc.
There will be no backstory. They are were's just like wolves. You get bit, you change on your first full moon for the first time. You can control your changes after that except on moons when you are forced to change. No Backstory of the species!!!
There is no doubt a lot of potential for Ailuranthrope, as they certainly have an interesting parallel with the Ancient Egyptians and Lycans. If the conditions of the site changed, then I could definitely see the species being integrated. As it stands now, though... I'd have to say no.
No conditions will change. I have spoken to fang about this. CK is CK as it stands. Wolves and Vampires with Panthers.
|
|
|
|
Post by felnicwinter on Oct 21, 2009 7:56:25 GMT -5
Reply 2 to Charlie:
I've read books of that nature too, but usually the only reason they work is because they typically tend to focus on one species or side. Honestly, war is always presented by both propaganda and history to a vs. situation. That is simply fact. It was the Axis vs. the Allies in WWII, and one could easily say that there were multiple players and countries involved in that. Still, what makes a story with even the tiniest bit of animosity work is the fact that it is one vs the other.
If you place the werepanther's as a neutral or an undecided species on the spectrum, they will inevitably become a focus of the board. In war, the object is to win, and how you win is by gaining anything you can. Whether it be land or people, there is almost always the constant struggle to attain something for your side's behalf. You could easily argue that this wouldn't be so by simply stating that it indeed would not happen if this species were permitted, but that doesn't necessarily warrant any truth to the matter. The board's plot would no longer be about two opposing sides, but two opposing sides pining for the attentions of one completely neutral perspective. That shifts the mood and tone of the site entirely (or at least it should to any perceptive writer).
Again, Wolves and Vamps are not at war as it stands, please read the plots going on. They may not like each other but they are not at war. The board was never on two opposing sides, technically it was three. Humans - Wolves - Vamps. And Charlie you're already trying to claim Panthers will become a central point of this site when the board owner has already stated it would not. Fang spoke. Enough said on that matter. We have taken the necessary steps to ensure such. Panthers are panther. Reclusive, secretive, etc. They are not a neutral third entity because Panthers are solo creatures. They do not pack like wolves and do not live in the same homes like Vampires. So there would be no species "Unity" to somehow pull off a Switzerland and be all neutral to everyone. Again, you know that third group during world war II? That analogy you used forgot to mention it was not Axis and Allies, it was Axis, Allies, and Nuetral Nations =D.
The point is this: With a third, neutral party... there is an inevitable focus on drawing them to one side or the other. If this is something you want, then go for it. If not, then don't.
They will be no neutral party. So there is no point to this argument. Panthers do not pack up or live together. Now before anyone jumps up and objects, Im not saying a panther could not allign with a Vamp or a Wolf or whomever and Im not saying they can not live with each other but the idea you're presenting of them being a third party (faction) almost unified to be neutral won't happen. I can tell you right off the bat Felnic would tell Vamps and Wolves and even most other panthers to go f*ck themselves and leave him alone.
I understand that there is an appeal to the species, and that it is only natural to avoid the cons when the desire for such is overwhelming. However, from a writer's standpoint, what I'm suggesting to all of you is that a story is much richer when you can explain the why's and how's. Of course it has to be analyzed, otherwise you end up with complete and utter crap that has absolutely NO boundaries. It is very necessary to have boundaries, in my opinion.
Ok we have explained the how's: you get bit, you get turned on your first full moon. As for the why's: Confining a writer based on a species backstory will not work on ck. Fang and I have already agreed we will not give origination to this. Felnics family had had panthers in them, one per generation but he doesn't know who in his family was the first were and does not know how the species origination just as no wolf knows specifically hows werewolves came to be and same for vampires. It confines a writer and frankly, not needed.
You do not have to have boundaries because it limits creativity, in my opinion.
You don't have to abide by the basic unspoken rules of building a plot, but it translates easier to those trying to decipher the core of what you're marketing in terms of a story. A lot of what people are attempting to debate me with are things I've already stated within my argument against them.I'm not saying it's never ever possible to include Ailuranthrope into a story arch.What I am saying though, is that you would have to redraft the story, because as it stands? Were-cats wouldn't fit into the focus.
Ok its not the character that makes the story its a writer. We are not having a board wide plot about this species because, quite frankly, splashing them across the board in such a manner would be ill-advised. Some people don't want to rp with panthers, some do. Im typing up Felnics first open thread now and it will be up to me and whomever replies to it to keep the story going. Its the writers that get the story going and continue it, not a character or what they are. Again your same argument was probably made when wolves were introduce "were-wolvewouldn't fit into the focus", yet look at them now.
I will say this once more before I finish typing up my post...
... you can not knock something unless you have personally tried it.
|
|
|
|
Post by felnicwinter on Oct 21, 2009 9:52:15 GMT -5
The first open WerePanther thread is up. Please refer to the Open Threads topic for details. - Let's have some fun people. =D |
|
|
|
Post by cataleenaczyz on Oct 21, 2009 16:52:24 GMT -5
Amazing Idea so how will you decide how many ware panthers there are out there?
|
|
Victor Ambrose
Your Guardian Angel, I'll be there... Your Cursed Monster, I'll be there...
Posts: 199 
|
Post by Victor Ambrose on Oct 22, 2009 17:07:37 GMT -5
Okay, it seems half of us are stuck on the Cons while the other halfs are stuck on the Pros... So, I wanted to put all of the arguments in perspective... So far, the arguments I see are: PROS:- CK was originally a Vampire Human Site
- We're technically adding a new species, just a subspecies that will be limited and under control
- It will add a new element to CK that may actually be interesting and add a new twist that could be successful.
- There is no war, and thus there is no conflict or muffling when it comes to adding the new species
- There will be no history and backstory for Panthers because Vampires and Werewolves do not have one, and thus nothing is needed
- They will be no neutral party. Panthers do not pack up or live together but if it is within the characters nature, they could not allign with a Vamp or a Wolf or whomever.
CONS:- Nothing good will come out of this because We already have Vampires, Humans, and Werewolves, and adding something new will only complicate and ruin the image of CK, just like the Vaccine
- Vampires, Humans, and WereWOLVES work together while adding the Panthers will just be too much.
- Werepanthers are not a sub species... They are a new species... It's too Much!
- If we do add them, there will be a need for a why, how, when, where, etc. and that would ruin the story line.
- If they are a neutral party, then they are practically pointless or made for them to side with one of the sides already present
- No boundries=CRAZY
I know I missed something, so if I missed something, I appologize... Also, not to creep you out, but I'm sorry, I have to say this... I LOVE YOU FELNIC!!!! |
|
